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alien5ive
Skale Fanatic


Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 392
Location: uk-germany

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject:

uhaaaaa. its gettin tired. we heard u. do ya thing and accept others opinion.

like i said [ use DOSBOX and FT2 -> it worx fine. ]

SKALE is more than FT2 like i guess ? do i???

and : yes i do understand and accept your opinion too. i think this thread is goin to a wrong direction...

later pal and a great nu years eve !
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sYnCHAoZ
Skale Lover


Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 136
Location: Denmark

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject:

Reezon wrote:
That's my point and your problem; you are not willing to use them advanced features, since you find using them annoying. It's like saying you like the car with automatic gear, but not with manual. Being "annoying" is part of the FT2 nature, you simply need to fiddle with settings and effects through the codes manually instead of for example using the mixer, which is simply nothing but an eyecandyextension of the FT2/Skale engine - totally useless to harcode trackers like me.

Now you get MY point?


I get your point mate.

But you know, typing in each volume change, filter and so forth manually in the effect strings is... well, it works, yes, but it doesn't make you cool or hardcore. If you can get the same results with an innovative, fast and easy usable GUI, then why not?

If you wanna track in the nostalgic way by doing EVERY single little thing manually, hey, that's fine. That's part of the charm of making music with a tracker, I've been there myself. But with a better and more user-friendly GUI that allows me to do the same with a few clicks of the mouse instead has really sped up my tracking rate without loss of quality.

Now if I was in the demo scene and releasing tracks in raw .skm or .xm format, then yes I would definately want to also do what you're doing. But I'm only releasing mp3's now, so noone can even see the source of how the song was made, and therefor I see absolutely no reason for me to stick with the old "I'm hardcore because I type everything manually" method any longer. I don't find it particularly fun to do anymore either.

You might find that to still be fiddling with all the codes manually makes you old-skool or hardcore in the eyes of some people. And fair enough man, whatever gets your boat floating. For that purpose Skale Tracker is the way to go, there's no doubt about it.

Quote:
..maybe Baktery should simply rip the mixer and vst support off and build the damn thing without them. We would get "FT2 for WINDOWS" very soon with full functionality and nobody would be disturbed, since Skale only covered the functionality of FT2, nothing more, nothing less. That's what most of the whiners are unable to see - the functionality is already almost there - only REALLY lacking sample editor.

No, that's YOUR personal preference. Again you seem to be stuck in the "old-school" department. If there's room and possibilities of improvements, then why not add them? It's like saying "I only want to drive old cars with no airbags because I prefer to suffer the full impact of a crash". Not all people are of the same mindset as you. Some people LIKE moving forward. Noone is forcing you to use the mixer or the new features, but you need to realize that some of us do. So really, you point fingers while we are whining that these new features don't work properly, while you yourself are whining about the program not being primitive enough :S

While Skale may have initially started as just an FT2 windows clone, it's become more than that.
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Reezon
Skale Newbie


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Fin

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject:

Funny, I thought you wrote you prefer doing things manually earlier on, guess I can't read.

You think typing in volume and effect is slower than taking your hands off the keyboard, grabbing your mouse, linking the instrument to the filter, creating automation, fiddling it to work AND doing the same with the volume? Yeah, you must be right and I'm wrong - after all, typing combination of 2-4 chars is just too much compared to your "easy" way.

I'm starting to sound like broken record here, but you obviously have never used a tracker. Since you don't know how to use features of the current software, since you have no idea what you can do just by typing in few numbers, you expect Bak to code the mixer, automation and vst support, instead of first coding working FT2? You think it's more important to have mixer, than first create effects and features the mixer is supposed to have? I just don't get it, but hey, I'm the stupid one here.

I don't want to be nostalgic, I want to do things right. If you only create mp3s, what's the difference you making them out of loops than individual hits? Does anyone hear the difference? BUT do you KNOW the difference? I know my songs like my own hands. When I watch the screen playing my song, I know exactly what's happening on every track AND note. I can create music even without having actual samples - I know how the endresult will sound without actually hearing it. That IS hardcore?

I'm not stuck at the "old school" deparment. I'm stuck with REASONABLE thinking. If the basics don't work, why bother working with the more advanced features either? You want mixer - GOOD. I want SAMPLE EDITOR. Which one is more important, huh? You want mixer to have EQ, I want the Skale ENGINE to SUPPORT EQ before the mixer is even developed. BASICS man, BASICS. You want moon, I want the rocket to get me to moon.
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Reezon
Skale Newbie


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Fin

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject:

I'm whining, because you are not primitive enough to see what you are asking or why you are asking it. I'm pointing fingers YES, but to the direction of solutions and to force you to look at them, too. Functionality you are asking is already there - you just need to use it. Instead of celebrating the current features, you keep on whining about the ones that still aren't there. That's just depressing and I can see why Baktery doesn't hang around here too often
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sYnCHAoZ
Skale Lover


Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 136
Location: Denmark

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject:

Reezon wrote:
Funny, I thought you wrote you prefer doing things manually earlier on I guess you can't read.

Yes, equalizing instruments manually, among other things. Try to stop twisting my words, please.

Quote:
You think typing in volume and effect is slower than taking your hands off the keyboard, grabbing your mouse, linking the instrument to the filter, creating automation, fiddling it to work AND doing the same with the volume? Yeah, you must be right and I'm wrong - after all, typing combination of 2-4 chars is just too much compared to your "easy" way.
Yes, I think it's MUCH slower. Typing volume changes, vibrato, filtering, tremolo etc. I'd rather just drag and draw curves with the mouse instead of typing A01 64 times for each string that needs it. I still type many command manually because it's more convinient. But other effects, such as filtering and volume especially, I'd rather work with a GUI instead of manual number punching. I've done PLENTY of that in FT2 and Skale, whether you believe it or not.

Quote:
I'm starting to sound like broken record here, but you obviously have never used a tracker. Since you don't know how to use features of the current software, since you have no idea what you can do just by typing in few numbers, you expect Bak to code the mixer, automation and vst support, instead of first coding working FT2? You think it's more important to have mixer, than first create effects and features the mixer is supposed to have? I just don't get it, but hey, I'm the stupid one here.
No, you're not sounding like a broken record, more like a guy who's getting angry for no reason and taking things way too personal. You're starting to turn this discussion into a flame war instead, continuosly claiming that I know nothing about trackers and that I've never used one. I know very well what can be done by typing in a "few" numbers, I'm just tired of typing those hundreds of "few" numbers over and over.

Quote:
I don't want to be nostalgic, I want to do things right. If you only create mp3s, what's the difference you making them out of loops than individual hits? Does anyone hear the difference?
Oh for christ sake, come on, are you serious? According to your logic then, if YOU too export one of YOUR Skale songs to wav and encode it as an mp3, then that too is magically turned into a track made out of loops and done "not right"?

Quote:
BUT do you KNOW the difference? I know my songs like my own hands. When I watch the screen playing my song, I know exactly what's happening on every track AND note.

So do I. Do you even know how those functions work in Renoise? They work EXACTLY the same way as if they were manually typed into the strings, except there's a visual GUI provided with accurately syncronized timing. When you drag the, ex. volume curve in a block, it works 100% the same as if you typed the same volume change in the effect string. Same goes for all filtering and automation. The functionality of coding C3A as a volume value in the effect string, is the exact same of dragging the graphical curve to the C3A volume in Renoise on that particular line. So if I want an increasing volume curve to fade in, I could either type A01 64 times in that string, or I could draw a curve from C00 to C40 in the GUI. Exactly same result, just a different way of doing it.

Quote:
I can create music even without having actual samples - I know how the endresult will sound without actually hearing it. That IS hardcore?
Hey that's great, that's something just about every single music artist in the world shares with you. Soooo, your point is? Why are you turning this debate into a self-promoting "I can do this and that" direction? I'm not trying to attack you man, chill the fuck out, you're so much on the defensive I think an army is gathering behind you
Calm down.

Now can we please stop the personal attacks?

Quote:
I'm not stuck at the "old school" deparment. I'm stuck with REASONABLE thinking. If the basics don't work, why bother working with the more advanced features either? You want mixer - GOOD. I want SAMPLE EDITOR. Which one is more important, huh? You want mixer to have EQ, I want the Skale ENGINE to SUPPORT EQ before the mixer is even developed. BASICS man, BASICS.
You're right, and I must agree with you here.

Quote:
I'm whining, because you are not primitive enough to see what you are asking or why you are asking it. I'm pointing fingers YES, but to the direction of solutions and to force you to look at them, too. Functionality you are asking is already there - you just need to use it. Instead of celebrating the current features, you keep on whining about the ones that still aren't there.
I've celebrated Skale plenty in the past, but I'm getting increasingly disapointed at the slow rate of progress and virtually non-existant communication between the community and the developer.

Quote:
That's just depressing and I can see why Baktery doesn't hang around here too often
He's never been around in the past either now has he? There is close to zero communication between him and his community. Even the website has been gone for close to a year now. Nothing ever gets done around here. It's distressing... and disapointing.

-----.-,-,-.m,-.m-.,m

Sigh, I'm done with this. CBA anymore.

We're both clearly very stubborn persons, and I doubt any of us is going to back down. So can we just agree to end this in a friendly way, please?

You're happy with Skale the way it is. Great, good for you!

I'm not happy with Skale the way it is, so I've moved on. Great, good for me!

The end?
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Reezon
Skale Newbie


Joined: 06 May 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Fin

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject:

Hihi. If one does not use smilies, his intentions are taken far to seriously. That said, I suffer from deep depression with terminal disease and don't get angry for things like these, I'm merely getting bored of repeating myself and realizing you do the same.

Yes, we both are stubborn bastards. You are wrong about me being satisfied, I do see what Skale still lacks. But whereas you are disappointed with the current features, I'm glad they exist - at all.

I don't take things personally, especially things at/from internet. I have this schitzophrenic idea, most of the people are the same but then again, most of the people don't "suffer" the way I do.

In the end, I believe we both want the same. It's just the path that's different; I don't want candy, I want functionality over form...my way is easier/faster to achieve, but it takes dedication to use the tracker - just like it did back at the time FT2 was THE tracker.
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sYnCHAoZ
Skale Lover


Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 136
Location: Denmark

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject:

Amen mate, amen
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