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Time Warrior
Skale Newbie


Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago, IL

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:55 pm    Post subject: Search Engine

I've created a search site for skale.org which can be found at:

http://skale.legalmusicsearch.com/

The administrators of Skale.org should please let me know if you wish to use this or if you wish me to remove the site. Until granted official permission, this is a "preview" and wil not be advertised anywhere with the sole exception of this message post.

Thanks,
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Time Warrior
http://www.legalmusicsearch.com
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st3vie
Skale Administrator


Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Posts: 641
Location: Beverwijk, The Netherlands

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject:

what does this search site really have to do with Skale?

-st3vie
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Time Warrior
Skale Newbie


Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago, IL

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject:

st3vie wrote:
what does this search site really have to do with Skale?

-st3vie


Aside from the skale forums search itself -- SkaleTracker creates music, yes?
If you look at the "legal music search" aspect of it, about 2/3rds of the search portals are demoscene. Modules. I think thats VERY relevent.
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Time Warrior
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st3vie
Skale Administrator


Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Posts: 641
Location: Beverwijk, The Netherlands

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject:

well, i don't know what Baktery thinks, but i think he will agree with me on most things i will say here.

Not to flame or anything, but here are some things that i think of it...

your site has the folowing 'links to Skale'... a link to the search section of the forums, and a link to the download on scene.org. And of course you kind of used the layout of the temporary main page of skale.org. Apart from those things, nothing is really Skale related (with an exception of thing salso being in the demoscene).

The search engine didn't work for me yet. i got 'stylish' 404 pages and the only stuff that worked were the google searches as far as i checked. i also don't think the site look/design is good enough.

To make a long story short, it gives me the feeling that the site is trying to use the popularity of Skale tracker. Something else is, the links to MP3 sites, some of which are very dubious as you probably well know.

My general idea is, that a search site like this is not needed for Skale at the moment, but maybe Baktery thinks different.

greets,
-st3vie
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Time Warrior
Skale Newbie


Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago, IL

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject:

st3vie wrote:
well, i don't know what Baktery thinks, but i think he will agree with me on most things i will say here.

Not to flame or anything, but here are some things that i think of it...



No problem. I never take anything personallty. You are simply looking out for the best interests of SkaleTracker.

st3vie wrote:


your site has the folowing 'links to Skale'... a link to the search section of the forums, and a link to the download on scene.org. And of course you kind of used the layout of the temporary main page of skale.org. Apart from those things, nothing is really Skale related (with an exception of thing salso being in the demoscene).


Well what else do you really feel is needed? Aside from the forums, the Skale Website has never gone more than 1 level down from the main page. If you plan on having more extensive documentation off the main page and more than one level down, and a more (for lack of a better word) "interactive" website from which a plethora of information about Skale can be found -- I would be more than happy to design a search engine that searches all of that. That wouldn't be hard for me to do at all.

I'm working with what little Skale has given me to work with, as far as the purposes of a search engine are concerned.

As far as "The Mission of Skale Tracker" I think Demoscene awareness is top priority. Who uses Skale? Demoscene musicians. I think demoscene searches for SONGS which is a feature Skale.org does NOT have available is extremely relevent.

st3vie wrote:


The search engine didn't work for me yet. i got 'stylish' 404 pages and the only stuff that worked were the google searches as far as i checked. i also don't think the site look/design is good enough.



Looks to me like you've made the classic mistake of not selecting a search portal. I've noticed it is a very common error for people to enter search terms while leaving the drop box stuck on "select an engine" or accidentally selecting a "null" value entry which is nothing more than a spacer between categories.

I have personally checked through every engine *manually* and all but the "internal" LMS searches (of which there are only 3) work just fine. All of the external portals (of which there are almost 100 of them) work without issues, from what I can tell.

As far as the look / design, it is a work in progress. The site design is being re-developed to a much better look and feel. Would you like a preview of things to come?

st3vie wrote:


To make a long story short, it gives me the feeling that the site is trying to use the popularity of Skale tracker. Something else is, the links to MP3 sites, some of which are very dubious as you probably well know.



Then also no offense ment on my part as well, you didn't spend more than a couple minuites at the site which is hardly an acceptable time to spend when doing any sort of research. I think you are also putting Skale on a much higher pedistal than it deserves to be on. In a period of 277 days, having done not very much advertising at all and not having the Skale Website's assistance in any way, shape or form to my site -- I have obtained 2,726 unique visitors, 5209 visits including reloads, 856 hits via other websites / search engines, and am averaging 247 visitors per month.

As far as search engine refers go, i've gotten 366 referers from MSN, 132 from Yahoo, 51 from Google, 11 from Dogpile, 6 from Altavista, 2 from Webcrawler and 1 each from Metacrawler and Search.com.

My site has been found by 351 people using the key word "music", 197 people using the key word "free", 196 people using the key word "legal", 109 people using the key word "srarch", 65 people using the key word "download", 50 people using the key word "sites", 44 people using the ket word "google" and the list goes on and on.

I've also gotten referers from my users telling their friends about my service via Yahoo Email and also at least one referer from a Usenet Post.

All of this info being publically available via the second option down on the left called "Usage Stats".

I find it very dubious that the insinuation that I'm trying to ride on "Skale Trackers Good Name" is being made when I'm doing more than well enough on my own.

Also should you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see a blank white box that is a broken flash link. Do you know what that link used to goto? View source on the page. You'll see that it was a skale tracker banner that when clicked used to goto the skale website.

It no longer works because of the difficulties you have been having with your site.

If anything -- you guys have gotten some hits because of me -- not the other way around.

The only way I could have gotten hits from you is via my signature, and as you know i'm not an "abusive poster" here. I'm not making 10,485 irrelevent post just so my sig gets some coverage.

I personally think you need to put more effort into researching something and ask more questions before making any final analasis. All you've given me is half-arsed observations and uncalled for accusations as to my intensions. You've not made any inquiries, just judgements.

Again, no offense intended, those are just my observations.

I am offering this to help you guys, not the other way around. So that Skale can offer more services without having to run them on the Skale servers themselves.

Also -- did you ever think to ask me "can you make a legal music search front end that includes only demoscene engines and that conforms to the skale website design as opposed to your own design?"

Had you asked me that, my responce would have been "it would take me some time but sure -- i'd be more than happy to include the full functionality of LMS into a skale template -- not a problem".

st3vie wrote:

My general idea is, that a search site like this is not needed for Skale at the moment, but maybe Baktery thinks different.

greets,
-st3vie


Whatever you decide overall is fine by me. I offered my help and thats ok if it is declined. In fact -- thats why the preview is such a "rough draft" because it's only made to give you the general idea.

I would never put hours of work into something like that knowing there is a good chance my offer would be declined. That preview took me 10 mins to toss together.

Should my offer be accepted, i'll include, exclude and design it according to the specifications of the administrative staff of Skale.org.

Thanks,
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Time Warrior
http://www.legalmusicsearch.com
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st3vie
Skale Administrator


Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Posts: 641
Location: Beverwijk, The Netherlands

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject:

Time Warrior wrote:
Aside from the forums, the Skale Website has never gone more than 1 level down from the main page. If you plan on having more extensive documentation off the main page and more than one level down, and a more (for lack of a better word) "interactive" website... <snip>

A new site is in the works with more options and features and interaction or news.

Time Warrior wrote:
As far as "The Mission of Skale Tracker" I think Demoscene awareness is top priority.

i disagree with the top priority thing for the Skale tracker mission. So far, most of the awareness comes from users that tell others about it, or from forum users like you, how have their own site, and talk about Skale there and by that way spread the word. Heck - i started out as a simple low-life forum user.

Time Warrior wrote:
Looks to me like you've made the classic mistake of not selecting a search portal. I've noticed it is a very common error for people to enter search terms while leaving the drop box stuck on "select an engine" or accidentally selecting a "null" value entry which is nothing more than a spacer between categories.

Not true... i just tried again, and didn't get the old skool ghostbusters logo, but an 404 - this page isn't here, whatever... browser dependent code perhaps? And i even get that GB logo, when i *do* select an option.

Time Warrior wrote:
Would you like a preview of things to come?

Sure, always nice to see design stuff.

Time Warrior wrote:
Then also no offense ment on my part as well, you didn't spend more than a couple minuites at the site which is hardly an acceptable time to spend when doing any sort of research.

No problem... i indeed spent a few minutes on the site, clicked through it and checked some serach options, which didn't work with me... So, when that happens on a site, i am gone very fast.

Time Warrior wrote:
I think you are also putting Skale on a much higher pedistal than it deserves to be on. <snip> < statistical data > </snip>

Perhaps... but in a slower month (like March) this site gets 400.000+ hits... in the heavier months (like with a new release and a few months after) it goes 1.000.000+ hits. So, compared to your site and even without real advertisement and such the site does more than fine so far. JUst needs a bloody update. =)

Time Warrior wrote:
I find it very dubious that the insinuation that I'm trying to ride on "Skale Trackers Good Name" is being made when I'm doing more than well enough on my own. <snip> The only way I could have gotten hits from you is via my signature, and as you know i'm not an "abusive poster" here. I'm not making 10,485 irrelevent post just so my sig gets some coverage.

Touche - i stand corrected for that remark.

Time Warrior wrote:
I personally think you need to put more effort into researching something and ask more questions before making any final analasis. All you've given me is half-arsed observations and uncalled for accusations as to my intensions. You've not made any inquiries, just judgements.

i disagree... i *did* check your site, i did *not* work here with me and think that i should not do more research, but you should, and perhaps see that Skale doesn't need your site idea right now... but you don't need Skale either for your site.
Of course it would great to have a scene search site, that endorses the use of Skale, but the two aren't related and there doens't *need* to be a connention in design/look or whatever, except perhaps a link.

Anyway, i know for sure, that Baktery would want someone to take down the Skale logos and such if they are used without his approval

wow, long post again - if you made it to here, congrats - very brave!
i wrote it fast... hope it is all correct and clear.

cheers,
-st3vie
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baktery
Skale Developer


Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 213

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject:

First, the visitors/day doesn't matter. For a commercial application/website maybe this is important to get more users/advertising/money but for Skale doesn't matter, it's a modest application.

About your website, I'm sure that your intention is good but the result is not fine to me.

From my point of view Skale Tracker website has been cloned and the link contents of "boycott" and "anti-something" are really disagreeable.

Please, don't use the Skale appearance for this purposes.


baktery
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Time Warrior
Skale Newbie


Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago, IL

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:09 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

A new site is in the works with more options and features and interaction or news.


Glad to hear it.

Quote:

i disagree with the top priority thing for the Skale tracker mission. So far, most of the awareness comes from users that tell others about it, or from forum users like you, how have their own site, and talk about Skale there and by that way spread the word. Heck - i started out as a simple low-life forum user.


I'm not sure how that differs from what I said. Is or is not Skale a module tracker based on FT2? I think in premoting itself Skale is premoting the Demoscene as well, is it not?


Quote:

Not true... i just tried again, and didn't get the old skool ghostbusters logo, but an 404 - this page isn't here, whatever... browser dependent code perhaps? And i even get that GB logo, when i *do* select an option.


This is odd, no one else has come accross this. Why not do what all good developers do and tell me specfically whats going on?

#1 - What browser were you using?
#2 - What engines did you try that fed you back a 404?

There is no "browswer specific" code in my website but I am curious as to why this is happening and with what portals or engines. Please give me more details.

Quote:

Time Warrior wrote:
Would you like a preview of things to come?

Sure, always nice to see design stuff.


I'll reply about this part later as to not add it to an already large novel. lol

Quote:

No problem... i indeed spent a few minutes on the site, clicked through it and checked some serach options, which didn't work with me... So, when that happens on a site, i am gone very fast.


Thats ashme. If a site has a bug in it, it's ashme most users could care so little they don't even report it to the web master.


Quote:

Time Warrior wrote:
I think you are also putting Skale on a much higher pedistal than it deserves to be on. <snip> < statistical data > </snip>

Perhaps... but in a slower month (like March) this site gets 400.000+ hits... in the heavier months (like with a new release and a few months after) it goes 1.000.000+ hits. So, compared to your site and even without real advertisement and such the site does more than fine so far. JUst needs a bloody update. =)


My overall point was not a hits penis contest. My point was that your dubious accusation was a severe error in judgement and I was explaining why this is the case.

Quote:

Time Warrior wrote:
I find it very dubious that the insinuation that I'm trying to ride on "Skale Trackers Good Name" is being made when I'm doing more than well enough on my own. <snip> The only way I could have gotten hits from you is via my signature, and as you know i'm not an "abusive poster" here. I'm not making 10,485 irrelevent post just so my sig gets some coverage.

Touche - i stand corrected for that remark.


No problem. I prefer the "Blunt truth no BS" platform anyways. It's more efficient.

Quote:

i disagree... i *did* check your site, i did *not* work here with me and think that i should not do more research, but you should, and perhaps see that Skale doesn't need your site idea right now... but you don't need Skale either for your site.
Of course it would great to have a scene search site, that endorses the use of Skale, but the two aren't related and there doens't *need* to be a connention in design/look or whatever, except perhaps a link.

Anyway, i know for sure, that Baktery would want someone to take down the Skale logos and such if they are used without his approval


Which is why I said it's just a preview only for the administration here and will be taken down if that is what is required. I simply wanted to give you guys a rough draft visual.
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Time Warrior
http://www.legalmusicsearch.com
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Time Warrior
Skale Newbie


Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Chicago, IL

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject:

baktery wrote:
First, the visitors/day doesn't matter. For a commercial application/website maybe this is important to get more users/advertising/money but for Skale doesn't matter, it's a modest application.


As I explained my point was that I was not attempting to ride on the good name of Skale but to help out your project.


Quote:

About your website, I'm sure that your intention is good but the result is not fine to me.

From my point of view Skale Tracker website has been cloned and the link contents of "boycott" and "anti-something" are really disagreeable.

Please, don't use the Skale appearance for this purposes.
baktery


From my perception -- I just offered you some help and gave you a rough draft online presentation to show you the basics and just got scolded and told to stroke off.

You could have been more tactful and just said "No, this is not something I feel the Skale site needs at this time -- thank you for your offer of assistance but I'd prefer you remove the content from your webserver."

This is why some people are scared to voice suggestions or offer assistance to public projects -- because of rebuttles like yours.

I'll only make feature suggestions for Skale now. Any ideas I might have to help premote scale or enhance the website in the future I'll burry in a dark hole where no one will find them.

I am dissapointed, to say the least.

Thanks to Stevie tho -- he may have started off a bit brute force but at least he leveled with me and remained polite.

The presentation has been removed from existance, deleted, recycled and otherwise obliterated. The url will no longer resolve.
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Time Warrior
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